Posts by Sea Breeze

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

A baby doesn't have to do anything to be "born". It's the parents who did the "something", not the kid.

@EP,

Being born again involves grace and faith.... "by grace through faith". One is the work of God, the other is the work of man. Babies are obviously incapable of belief or faith. So, I fail to see much of a correlation in your analogy. But, here's rub. When we choose to believe Jesus, there is an automatic cost involved.

The Romans brought a great deal of law and order to many lands. It wasn't perfect by any means, but at least there was a template for relative peace. What was the cost? It was the Roman tax. It was only a small percentage of your income. In return, you got a Roman garrison and a legion if necessary to quell invading armies, maurading bands, murderers etc. It was called the "Roman Peace" or Pax Romana. If you paid the tax, you got peace.

Everyone in the Roman empire was very familiar with this cost for peace. Indeed, even Jesus reccommended that people pay the tax. It is with this familiar scenario where a percentage of your income is paid in exchange for peace that Jesus lays out his terms for peace as earth's newly arrived King.

Luke 14: 31 “Or what king, going to wage war against another king, does not sit down first and take counsel whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Otherwise, while the other is yet at a distance, he sends a delegation and requests conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, any of you who does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

This must have been shocking to people who were used to only paying a percentage of their works in exchange for peace... For Jesus, the true cost wasn't 25% or 50% or even 95%. His stated terms for peace was very simple: ALL OF IT.

To be born again, it will cost you all of your pride, all of your works, possibly all of your family, certainly all of your dignity as you look to a cursed man hanging on a tree for salvation.

This is Jesus' terms for peace and a prerequisite for being born again. Once this transaction between Jesus and the believer has been conducted, the believer is born again with a new spirit. A spirit which cannot sin. Because of this new spirit, the believer possesses a "knowing" that he will live as long as Jesus lives. The two destinies are eternally entertwined together and a person can absolutely know that they are saved.

Only then can a person let loose and allow themselves to absorb the full implications of eternal consciousness.

Are you born again Easy Prompt?

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

People will say of the dead, " rest in peace" or "they aren't suffering anymore" and at the same time say ,"mother is in heaven watching over me" ( can't be both )

@enoughisenough

Sure they can. And the reason is that they believe the bible where it describes man as a tripartite being in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 & Hebrews 4:12.

When Christians die, they are quite literally in two places at the same time. The body is decaying in the earth and the spirit/soul is with the Lord.

"absent from the body, present with the Lord"

The redifinitions installed by the WT are very hard to get rid of. That is why they call it a cult.

Again, I'm not saying that you or anyone else has to believe the bible. But you should take the time to understand what you are rejecting to see if it is really your wish to do so and not just some default response to deception.

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

@EasyPrompt,

I couldn't help but notice that your posts are completely void of any attempt to address the many scriptures I provided that challenge your assumptions.

I know this is uncomfortable for you. It's supposed to be. Once the WT lies are irradicated, a person will naturally want to seek safety in the way prescribed in scripture - getting born again.

John 3 - "[Nicodemus] came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him." Just being impressed with Jesus isn't enough for eternal life. Salvation is not an intellectual exercise. You cannot get to where you need to go using intellect alone. Jesus explains:

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Three times in the conversation Jesus tells Nicodemus that a person must be born again. This requires abandonment of your first birth and all the works from the first life as well:

Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. - Romans 4

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

Yes, SeaBreeze, I do realize your statement "Yes" on having been to heaven and back is a contradiction.
John 3:13 - "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man."

@EastPrompt

You are running into problems again using your WT installed re-definitions and assumptions on the nature of man. As I pointed out before - the bible claims we are a tripartite being constituted of soul, body & spirit in:

1 Thessalonians 5:23

Hebrews 4:12

A "man" is constituted of fallen soul, body and spirit. If any of those are missing, then that component is not a "man". But "you" can stil go to heaven.... because in the bible, both the soul and the spirit are characterized as personhood using pronouns and consciousness to describe those components as "you".

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

See how in the above scripture the "person" departing is separate from the body? Here, God equates personhood with spirit:

1 Co_14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth

And of course this verse decribes a person as being either in the body or out of the body:

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise - 2 Cor. 12: 2

The materialism ideas that the WT taught us are not biblical. They were installed by the WT using sophisticated indoctrination techniques and can take many years to finally shed.

Regardless of where our consciousness ends up, we will always be conscious for ever, and ever, and ever and ever. That is why scripture asks us to not just be causal participants in Christianity but move on to the point where a person absolutely knows where they will spend eternity. And, yes a person can KNOW for sure where they will spend eternity. That provides a great deal of comfort as we begin to shed worldly ideas and philosophies and realize that we will always be conscious:

1 John 5:13
"that you may know that you have eternal life"

This is not just consciousness. "Life" here is indicative of a glorified body, together with your soul and spirit all together for eternity. Remember, the definition of death is separation of the components of man (Gen. 35: 18)

"we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him" - 1 John 3: 2-3

And, how was Jesus when he ascended? He was in his own glorified body, soul and spirit - fully "man".

A person can know their destiny for sure. It is really the only way to keep from suppressing the enormity and reality of our eternal consciousness.

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

Have you been there?

Yes.

Jesus had been there. He never said anything about all that jazz. Jesus gave that vision to John in Revelation.

You do realize the statement above is a total contridiction?

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

EZE 18:4 tells us the soul who sins will die not live on somewhere else. So choose to believe the soul lives on if that is what you wish

Your assumption is still just as false as before. The soul that is sinning will die and be separated from its body.... just like scripture says.

Heaven is full of unresurrected dead souls, thinking, talking, being comforted etc. These dead souls are VERY conscious:

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. - Rev. 6: 9-11

The martyrdom of Stephen is also proof that of the survival of the spiritual part of man. When they stoned Stephen to death, we read that “he fell asleep.” This could have no reference whatever to the soul, for it was his body they had pummeled with rocks.

As Stephen’s body went to its death, earth was receding but Heaven’s gate approaching. He knew that he was entering into another sphere of consciousness. He prayed: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit” (Acts 7:59). This disciple of Christ did not seek to postpone death or to fight it off. He likely remembered the words of Jesus: “Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do” (Luke 12:4)

"Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" - 2 Cor. 5: 8

Your belief in unconsciousness after death is a false hope according to the bible. You are welcome to believe anything you want as well. But, you have to ask yourself, what is it that would cause you to accept the tenets of a failed ideology like materialism over the words of a man that walked out of a tomb?

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

If the dead are conscious, then that means they are alive

@enoughisenough,

No it means your assumption about the definition of death is different than the biblical definition of death. Modern Materialism gained steam in the 17th century. This is the template that you are superiposing on scripture.

The bible gives the definition of death early on:

Gen. 35: 17 - Now it came to pass, when she was in hard labor, that the midwife said to her, “Do not fear; you will have this son also.” 18 And so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

Bbilical death means separtion from your body.

enoughisenough, It is not necessary for you (or anyone else) to abandon belief in Materialism, that is personal choice. However, it is necessary for you to change your assumption on death when reading scripture if you wish to understand it as the writers and the early readers did.

Lazurus wasn't really asleep ( Jesus just lied )

Lazarus' body appeared asleep - motionless.

Instead of assuming that a man who walkied out of a tomb is a liar, ever think that just maybe Materialism is a lie? Maybe man is constituted of a soul, body, & spirit like scripture plainly states in two NT places. Maybe Jesus is correct when he taught consciousnesss after death dozens of times.

What prompts you to assume as truth ideas from men who lie & die over Him who publically demonstrated his power over death? What (or who) could compare with a display of power and authority like that?

92

Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"

by aqwsed12345 in

the narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.

the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).

he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.

Sea Breeze

This is an example of irrational response to the plain voice of scripture. All for the sake of maintaining a doctrine not taught in the Bible but borrowed from paganism. You're converting no one.

@vienne

You and Russell are out of your minds on this point. Yall don't convert anyone with an ounce of common sense.

Or, do you wish to make a false universal doctrine out of yet another philosophical statement "under the sun" from Ecclesiastes ?

"money is the answer for everything” (Ecclesiastes 10:19)

Why don't you believe that vienne? Ummm?

The writer of Ecclesiastes ultimately rejects a carnal point of view ("under the sun") as striving after wind.... the one you (selectively) embrace. People want to believe that when they die there is no consciousness because they believe there is some comfort in that. Jesus is the ONLY source of comfort .... ever.... not some fake hope of unconsciousness.The reality is that Jesus taked over and over again about consciousness after death.

Every person ever born will be conscious forever. Jesus really wanted people to get this, if they got nothing else.

No Bible character places more stress on hell as the final consequence of God’s judgment for unatoned sin than Jesus. God’s Son was the greatest theologian on hell.

Jesus was the one who compared hell to the Valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem,thus “Gehenna” took hold as a name for hell. He also compared it to prison and to outer darkness. It was he who likened hell to “a fire” at least twenty different times.

“Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in Him” (John 3:14-15).

Jesus invites everyone to spend eternity with Him instead.

He stated that he would die of his own free will and resurrect himself to show that he knew what he was talking about. I think I'll take him at his word. He is not someone that would mislead people, he is the TRUTH.

21

What does this even mean?

by Blotty in

"the son is born of the father by generation, but generation should not be understood in the everyday sense.

the son is derived from the father through pure spiritual generation, through the unlimited sharing of his essence.

so, the birth of the son is an intellectual activity of god.".

Sea Breeze

Can this be put in simpler terms (by someone who is not the original writer)?

Sounds like someone is commenting on the "Eternal Generation of the Son"

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” - John 1

“The Word was Himself the cause of all created things; His eternal generation could be implied in the eternality of His existence and His distinct personality. I think it is difficult for us to imagine what "happened" before time. It is enough for me to state that at the beginning of everything, the Word was "already" God and with God.

An alternate view might be that Jesus was "only begotten" at his conception / birth in the incarnation- while "the Son" is an eternal description of the Word, unbegotten before the incarnation.

85

Physically in mentally agnostic ie sitting on the fence

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

hi everyone i’m not pimi or pimo i’m pima.. i don’t think the gb have everything right but i’m sitting on the fence that maybe they do some things.. if the great trib starts i will jump that side of the fence.. this is a definite little sneaky advantage dodging but even by their own doctrine last min some could come in.. i suspect many are like me.. i spent years in bethel and am very disappointed and disillusioned by it all.. but at the end of the day i love the bible and think it is the word of god and i don’t see any other religion that comes as close to what jesus describes his true followers or who are fulfilling mat 24:14..

Sea Breeze

into each weeks Bible reading and we often talk as if we doubt certain parts or we are trying to get to the bottom of something that doesn’t make sense, many times we just leave it that we can’t find the answers

@ EB PIMA

Your focus on Mt. 24: 14 is "out of season". Christians are (supposed to be) ready to talk about the kingdom, but like I pointed out above, the Christian message is one of reconciliation with God.

This is why when we went to the doors and preached the good new of the kingdom. Chrtistians gave us the "deer in the headlights" look. This gave the impression that they were clueless. Only they weren't. Christians rightly focus on being reconciled to God, just as the apostles taught, and this is the primary message you will hear in a bible believing church as opposed to a Kingdom Hall.

Scripture commands readers to "rightly divide" the word of God. That implies there is a wrong way to divide the scriptures as well.

The early Christians saw their mission as global in scope, but during his earthly ministry, Jesus explicitly declared his mission to be focused only on Israel (Matt 15:24). He claimed that his mission was only to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel”. The Gospels record Jesus as being up front about his nationalistic intentions.

His focus on Israel can be seen in his prophecies and pronouncements of judgment on the nation. Through symbolic, prophetic actions like cursing the fig tree (Mark 11:12-14, 20-25; Matt 21:18-22) and cleansing the temple (Mark 11:15-19; Matt 21:12-17; Luke 19:45-48, John 2:13-16), as well as strong prophetic denunciations (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21, 13:6-9), Jesus made his particular focus on Israel clear.

Therefore, we should say the mission of Jesus is first to Israel (through his own ministry) and then to the Gentiles (through the actions of his apostles),

The way to view the NT is that the Christian era is parantheitcal within the over all age of grace that Jesus introduced. The nation of Israel was already reconciled to God through the legal auspices of the OT mediated by Moses. The gentiles had no such reconciliatiatory covenant.

Once the Christian congregation is removed from earth (at the rapture prior to the Great Tribulation), then the total fullfillment of the Mt. 24: 14 will be reaized. It will be preached likely by the real 144K male Jewish virgins and untold millions of tribulation believers as well. It will literally be the last hope for man. Most if not all will be martyred though duing the GT.

But, the world isn't quite there yet!

Jesus was promised a nation, a kingdom and a people, and that is just exactly what he's going to get. The focus of the OT was on these things. The Christian era is simply a parenthesis to this overall objective. WE are the ones grafted into Israel.... not the other way around.

Romans 11: 1 - I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.

Read the entire chapter of Romans 11 with the framework I just described in mind. It will make more sense.